Tweed vs blackface vs silverface. May 7, 2013 · IMO, the only virtue of blackface amps is the sonic benefits vs silverface. I also have a 67 BF Super Reverb and even though they are now the same "circuit", they sound a bit different. Up until the end of May 8, 2016 · This article covers the three models based on the following Fender Princeton amps: - Prince Tone: Tweed Princeton with 5F2 circuit. Blackface amps with Jensen speakers are my favorite sounding for sure. 2. 8, three band eq, reverb, master volume, and fat switch. Now we can start the conversion to the blackface circuit. Some models were phased in to Silverface earlier in 67 such as the Pro Reverb, Princeton and Deluxe Reverb. here are the major differences. the Super sounded good but I guess I'm not a blackface guy I like the mids in a tweed. The Bassman has a very 3D tone. Feb 23, 2021 · I have a '64 blackface Champ that I need to get refurbished. Most of those smaller silverface amps didn't change much from their blackface counterpart. #7. The tweed Deluxe will sound more up front and somewhat "in your face". Today we are diving deep into each of these classic amplifier eras (with apologies to the Silverface era, which we consider to be mostly similar sonically to the Blackface amps- see our Blackface vs Silverface Jan 4, 2013 · Here I am comparing my clone 5F1 Tweed Champ with an 8" Peavey speaker, to my 1968 Fender Vibro Champ with a Weber 8A125-0 speaker. Artificial center tap on heater winding. It's not a straight up trade, but it's a fair one if I decide to move forward with it. Standby switch moved so that it is hot switching. If you WERE to TRY to describe the 'flavor' of the amps, I'd say. It was soon replaced by the even-smaller Champion 600 a year later. k. #4. Denver, CO. Dec 4, 2018 · The biggest difference will be clean headroom. In 1964, a Champ with Nov 11, 2004 · There is very little difference between a Silverface DR from that vintage and a Blackfac e one. Here's a great example of two Fender amps which are voiced very different to each other. that in a figurative way, that's pretty good! Sep 8, 2008 · 4,045. In addition to the base Princeton Reverb model, Fender introduced the non-reverb Princeton — an amp that sported all the changes of the Blackface Princeton Reverb but with (surprise) no reverb. 2k dropping resistor in power supply. I understand that these are supposed to be the same circuit as the later 60's SF Champs. #1. com. the one or two pice cabnet. The 68′ Custom Reissue soundwise already is a much better ‘Blackface’ reissue than the 65′. The 100/135 have a little wider bandwidth and punch vs the 50. The regular 50-watt model remained available during the short (1969-1971) tenure of the Super Bassman. I think this is the right answer. The Brownface amps have a Deeper more throbbing Tremolo than later Blackface amps, perhaps one reason Surf Dec 4, 2020 · Often viewed as a tweed Bassman with reverb and tremolo, the iconic blackface Fender Super Reverb combo is really a model entirely unto itself, embodying elements from the musical-equipment maker’s best designs of the late ’50s and early ’60s. Apr 18, 2019 · “As a player, collector, and amp tech for more than 25 years, I’ve owned mostly Fender amps, and several from each period – tweed, brownface, blond, blackface, silverface. Each model remained basically the same in terms of size and speaker configuration, but the larger models increased in power and some gained extra midrange and master volume controls, and some either a 'pull boost' or 'pull distortion' circuit after about 1972-1976 depending on the model. The British would be an old marshall like a plexi. Jun 30, 2009. Apr 25, 2004 · Dec 10, 2014. a. The bass channel of the AB165 and AA864 is much mellower and deeper than the normal channel of any AB763 amps since it is voiced for bass guitars. Just right. All resistor and capcitor values are the same between the two eras and the only practical difference is the regular blackface and silverface differences; cabinet + baffle construction, chocolate drop caps, plastic insulated wires. Great buy! I think the silver face bassman amps, in all iterations including the late great bassman 100, are some of the most stellar rock amps ever created. Nov 18, 2016 · Nov 18, 2016. 135W / 70W Ultralinear Recap Kits. There are some exceptions and some overlap, but the general idea is this: Tweeds (early 50’s to very early 60s), Browns (1960 – 1962), Blondes (1962 – 1963), Blackface (1963 – 1967), and Silverface (1967 – 1981). I'm comparing two original vintage Fender Vibrolux Reverb Combos: 1966 Blackface Vs 1973 Silverface. 80uF filter capacitor on bias supply. Dec 6, 2023 · Fender’s Princeton amp began life in 1946 as a six-watt, 1x8 combo with a wooden cabinet. The blackface has that famous Fender clean and sparkle and, of course, reverb. and the Blackface would be a (not quite as old) old fender like a deluxe. My fave 'faux' BF amp right now is a '65 Bandmaster head in a Rodgers 3x10" cab---the amp that never was for 1/3 the money of a Mar 19, 2012 · The Blackface is just so neat and tidy, while the Silverface looks like somebody dumped a plate of spaghetti in there. The 47K phase invertor plate resistors were changed to 100K and 82K. by andy_tchp » Sun May 21, 2017 10:58 pm. Hope this helps. Jan 31, 2010 · Posted February 3, 2010. This model became the 2×15” Bassman 50 in 1972, a year that also saw the arrival of the 50-watt Bassman 10 combo (the first 4×10” version in more than a decade, although it had a sealed back) and the 100-watt piggyback Bassman 100, which was basically a Super Bassman repackaged with Its circuitry remained the same as its blackface predecessor for a short period until a bias balance control was introduced in mid-1968 (a questionable feature abandoned by late 1969). Reply. without reaching 100%. Super Twin Reverbs were 180w. Re: Blackface vs Silverface. Same guitars, & mic. I'm playing them using a 1973 Gibson Les Paul Custom. Both amps in original condition with no mods. I doubt it adds value, and may detract. The ’65 Princeton is known for its “sweet” reverb, tube-driven through a “long-spring” reverb tank for exceptional performance. May 18, 2017 · Messages. These “ultralinear” amps are ideal if you want big & clean; pedal steel guitar for example. Mar 16, 2017 · Re: New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface. 3. Jun 22, 2007 · Search titles only By: Search Advanced search… May 4, 2022 · Sixteen schematic differences between '74 Deluxe Reverb and AB763 Deluxe Reverb: 1. The BF/SF 50W versions are no slouch, but can be slightly underpowered for some live situations. Mar 19, 2012. September, 1967 was the first month that ALL Fender Amps were officially Silverface. It subsequently evolved into more powerful and higher-gain forms through the tweed and brownface eras, before it became the iconic blackface model of 1965, which, with its cleaner sound and addition of spring reverb, made it an amplifier prized by session guitarists and working players alike. To my ears, there are a few major differences between the tweed champs, bf/sf champs, and bf/sf champs modded to tweed specs. Jan 24, 2023 · Overdriving a Princeton Reverb results in a harder, more immediate attack, with less of the treasured “sag” that Tweed players prize so heavily. I've also done a lot of speaker swapping, and prefer the Jensen RI C8R or Weber Signature Alnico 8S (ribbed cone) in the tweed and the Weber Signature Ceramic 8 (smooth cone) in the Vibro Champ. Those are the major changes except for a couple minor ones in the tremelo circuit. Jan 7, 2023. Can anyone compare the tweed vs blackface deluxe? I would go with a clone if a got the tweed, but the 65 Deluxe Reverb RI isn't so Silverface Twins came with them much more commonly. Originally the Blackface amps came first - 1963 to 1968 - and the Silverfaces later - 1968 to 1981*. Fender amps with tweed covering today include the ’57 Twin-Amp, ’57 Deluxe, ’57 Champ, ’59 Bassman LTD and Blues Deluxe Reissue. #2. (AA270) Silverface early to mid '70's Twin Reverb. When we talk about the 65′ Blackface Reissue, it is friendly priced though. The later champs have more of the bf era sound (yeah, stating the obvious). bigmusicsho In-depth comparison of blackface and silverface model. This Super Reverb is a little mellower and sweeter-sounding than my ’65 Pro Reverb, and has a bit more midrange presence and less top-end than most later blackface Apr 14, 2011 · JPN blackface, WG blackface and UK silverface are all related masterings, i. I believe that in 1963 or 1964 the Champ was in a brief transitional period where the tweed circuit and cabinet got the black tolex treatment that the larger amps got. Silverface Twins were 100W. The WG blackface is louder (makes more use of the available headroom) but without any clipped peaks, i. The Champion 600, Champion 800, and 5C1 Champs (Produced from 1948-1954): All three of these models used the same circuit. With the blackface amps they tightened everything up for better reliability and durability, but had to add reverb because the channel one with no effects didn't sound as complex as the Tweed amps. While they can be made a little softer, they cannot be properly converted to full blackface specs. and the mighty Silverface champ. The Deluxe also has two channels – a normal and a vibrato while the Princeton is only a single channel amp. Jan 16, 2022 · Lush Reverb And Tremolo. Jan 17, 2021 · The amp was now sounding pretty good, an excellent example of the CBS-era Vibrolux Reverb. The Vibrolux is quite similar to the Pro Reverb 2×12″ except for the smaller speakers, output In this video we compare three classic Fender "blackface" amps:1. Feb 2, 2019 · From what I've read The Twin Reverb and the Dual Showman are the same amp as far as electronics same tubes and same power about 85 watts (as per Fender). The result of this is more punch and a bit more headroom. Blackface as apple: Hard, crisp, and clean; perhaps a little dry. Location. In mid 1967, CBS started to Oct 10, 2023 · The two biggest differences between the amps are in their power and features. As for Blackface/Silverface The blackface has diffrent tone capasiters and some like the Pro Reverb and Delux Reverb had a Tube rectifier. 65 Deluxe Rever The tweed feels "broken in" like a good old fashioned blues amp, which overdrives easily, and more mids and not as much treble. based on the same analog to digital transfer. Oct 25, 2016 · Oct 25, 2016. Now the larger silverface amps are a different story. I've had both the RI Bassman and RI Super Reverb and prefered the Bassman. 7. #37. Redman113. The Tweed '57 Bandmaster has a mellow, yet chuggy tone when pushed Jan 25, 2017 · It's simply the mid sixties amps with a black front panel. The diffrence is in. The Deluxe Reverb is a 22-watt amp while the Princeton Reverb is almost half of that at only 12-watt. So are BF cleans beautiful. Dec 14, 2019 · To me, sonically the biggest difference between the white-tolex/brownface (and white-knob blackface) Bassmans and later blackface/silverface amps is that the earlier amps had more body and more of a "direct" sound, for lack of a better term. The Champion 600 used a six inch speaker with the Champion 800 and 5C1 used an eight inch speaker. comHW discusses the differences in tone between the 65 and the Jul 28, 2017 · Comparison - 1959 High Powered Fender Twin Amp (Jense P12N Reissue speakers) Vs 1962 Fender Twin Amp (JBL D120F speakers) Vs 1967 Fender Twin Reverb Amp (Pyl Mar 9, 2022 · Incredibly, Fender has at least a dozen classic amps, and three entirely distinct era’s; each unique both sonically and aesthetically. The following changes were made to convert the Silverface AB568 circuit to the Blackface AA964 circuit: 1. These are the 70W and 135W model silverface amps. In 2013, Fender released the silverface '68 Custom amplifiers as a part of their Vintage Modified series, modeled after the original drip-edge silverfaced amps of 1968. The Deluxe Reverb is used on so much stuff it has the be the “Fender sound”. What's your experience with this? Do they actually sound that much worse than their Blackface counterparts? What are the actual mechanical differences that would account for the The Bassman is known for its simple, pure and raw tone. So I'm currently playing through a 1974 Fender Silverface Princeton Reverb for lower watt applications, but I've always wanted to try a Fender Tweed Champ and I have the opportunity to trade my Princeton for a 1962 Tweed Champ. Sep 29, 2006 · Tweeds are peaches, and Blackfaces are apples. I know a man who knows for sure. Jul 8, 2005 · 04-10-2006, 04:56 PM. ) Last month’s column featured some modifications to convert a ’70s Fender Twin Reverb back to blackface specs. No E Jun 8, 2012 · Get a silverface. Apr 18, 2019 · The Vibro Champ takes pedals better. #10. The SF Bassman 100/135 are really cool bass heads. It was discontinued in 1966 and had no silverface models to follow. We’ve heard it said that Silverface amps are nearly identical to their Blackface predecessors. Others have provided positively glowing praise of the Silverface ('68 It’s a bit surprising that Fender went to fixed bias at all for the 6G2, but one of this amp’s other standout features offers a clue to the thinking behind this move. It’s build point-to-point, but it isn’t exactly friendly priced. I wouldn't spend a dime replacing the face plate, unless the one I have is destroyed, and then I would take an authentic original over changing to a blackface. The Champ storied history began in 1948 as a 4-watt amp with a single 8-inch speaker in the form of the original Champion 800. Both are amazing amps. 2. ago. 1) The tweed champs have more of a raw sound, with a bunch more mids. (Wow, say that three times fast. White vinyl was also used on a very few TV-front Bassman and Both the Deluxe Reverb (DR) and Princeton Reverb (PR) “survived” the CBS silverface periods with minor changes. html and http://www. Comparison: 1971 Fender Twin Reverb Vs 1965 Fender Twin Reverb with a 2013 Gibson SG Standard Custom Shop and a 1973 Fender Stratocaster. Add to Cart. Blackface/Silverface. You’ll never want to use a digital reverb once you try the Princeton! Blackface Fender amps are renowned for their tube-powered tremolo Fender Super Reverb Blackface 1967 vs. The mid-’60s also saw Fender’s first ill-fated foray into solid-state amps. au/fender-65-deluxe-reverb-amp. Of all the common BF/SF models, I ended up with a '68 Pro Reverb; good balance of power and weight, plenty of headroom for most situations, not too big, not too small. May 10, 2021 · Fender amps from the Silverface era one of those few remaining deals to be had. There are lot of silver faced amps using the same circuit, but they are usually much less money. Dec 9, 2013 · Hi, Ask Amp Man fans. Tweed as peach: Soft, sweet, colored, and juicy with a little fuzz on the outside. The black/silver Deluxe and Deluxe Reverb have much more than the tweed Deluxe. It is just a little more aggressive sounding and more (here's that word again) "organic". Jan 13, 2014 · Fender amps, in short, went from Tweed to Brownface to Blackface to Silverface. Jay-c58. I have a Tone King now which is basically blackface Fender on one channel and tweed/early Marshall on the other. :hank. Unlike a Tweed, a BF isn't going to really break up until you get well past noon on the dial. Mar 8, 2024 · <t>So I am kind of gassing for a deluxe or a twin, probably the deluxe because the twin is overkill for my apartment. Any decent speaker you can put in a silverface amp will almost certainly sound better than what came stock. To me, the earlier amps sound better when pushed. Michigan. Jun 13, 2003 · 46. fender changed the circuit when they changed colour on the faceplate but players hated it so they went back, but damage was done and silver faced amps are still considered inferior Fender,Schematics, Amps, Amplifiers, Tubes, Valves, Bandmaster, Bandmaster Reverb, Bantam Bass, Bassman, Bronco, Champion, Champ, Vibro Champ, Concert, Deluxe, Deluxe May 12, 2014 · Never found them too scooped. A small number of the last 5F1 style cabinets were covered with the "Blackface" amp cosmetics around this transition, as the factory most likely ran out of the tweed cloth covering. Love 'em both. 001uf caps can be simply removed, and if you are a purist, change the 330K resistors from the grids of the Phase inverter to 1 Meg. 5,146. e. (ultralinear model, also Quad, Super Six, Dual Showman and Vibrosonic Reverbs) Blackface Vibro-Champ, layout. The last Blackface Fender amps were shipped in August, 1967 and were the Super Reverb and the AB165 Bassman. Meanwhile, the Bandmaster's 4 ohm OT is a bit smallerthe same size as a Pro Reverb. You dont miss the reverb on the Bassman but its a must on the Super. Highly recommended That's good to hear. BF amps have the traditional scooped tone Fender amps are known for, and have much higher headroom. Further, the silverface Twin was boosted to 100 watts. - Prince Tone NR: Silverface without reverb, AA964 circuit (modeled after early CBS “Silverface” model, pre-CBS design and components). 65 Princeton Reverb Reissue (PRRI) loaded with a 10" Jensen C10R speaker. It is 50w loud with power supply and output transformers sized approx. That the main difference is in the speakers, as someone else has suggested, seems eminently sensible. I own one of each. Silverface 198045-50 Watts Blackface 4x10" CTS Alnico 8ohm Silverface 4x10" Rola Ceramic16ohmharmonica: Marine Band D THE AMP. bigmusicshop. While both of these early versions were tweed, the Champ was overhauled in 1964 in the “blackface” style with a black Tolex covering. The Normal channel of a Bassman is essentially the same thing as the normal channel of the Bandmaster. If you have a silverface amp, have the amp partially modded to blackface. Very different sounding amps, but all glorious in their own way. Speakers in silverface amps were pretty much all dismal sounding except for the JBL's. To see which model Twin Reverb, Pro Reverb or Super Reverb you have, look under the speaker output jack in the back. Messages. Jul 5, 2021 · Otherwise, try Fender’s more recent ’68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb, which pays tribute to the look and sound of the original silverface version. The Tweed amps also had thin baffles (screwed in, not glued) and very resonant cabs. The 35w blackface Vibrolux Reverb (VR) is the smallest member of the blackface/silverface 6L6 Fender amp family. This site may earn a commission from merchant links like Ebay, Amazon, and others. Silverface Fenders, still have the "Fender Tone," but are even cleaner and more sparkly. Deluxe Reverb, it’s probably the most widely toured with/recorded with Fender amp of all time and I’m sure how often I’ve heard it has left that impression on me. Fender,Schematics, Amps, Amplifiers, Tubes, Valves, Bandmaster, Bandmaster Reverb, Bantam Bass, Bassman, Bronco, Champion, Champ, Vibro Champ, Concert, Deluxe, Deluxe Nov 16, 2009 · From what I understand there would be very little difference in the actual circuitry between blackface and early silverface, I can find out for sure if you really want to know. Jan 5, 2021 · Check out our Kemper Profiles, Impulse Responses and Helix Presets at:https://tonejunkiestore. Many people consider the silverface amps just as sonically good as the blackface models. First, to get a general idea,there’s the appearance/style of the amp. They have “ultralinear” transformers & more drastic circuit changes. Cosmetically the Champions differ from the 5C1 Champ. I have, and thoroughly preferred the sound of the Blackface ('65 Reissue'). AA165 and AB165 are similar, with 3 gain stages in both channels, AA864 has 3 gain stages only in the bass channel. I'm not a huge fan of the toneking stuff, at least the ones I've heared, maybe they're just The Tweed amps also had thin baffles (screwed in, not glued) and very resonant cabs. Other than the first-generation tweed Tremolux, the 5G9 and 5G9-A, Fender always preferred to mount its bias-modulated tremolo circuit on a fixed-bias output stage. Oct 20, 2023 · Im playing it right now. Essential Ingredients of the Blackface Vibrolux Reverb: Two 6L6GC output tubes generating around 35 watts RMS; Tube-driven reverb and tremolo; Normal and vibrato (a. Never much of an explanation besides being told they sound horrible. Being almost a blackface amp with a new faceplate (wrong for collectors), the silverface models became popular value-for-the-money amps. $7900. All great amps. tremolo) channels; GZ34 Big Music's Angus Marshall compares 2 Fender Deluxe Reverb Amp's - http://www. (also Quad, Super Six, Dual Showman, and Vibrosonic Reverbs) Silverface late '70's Twin Reverb 135w. . I also have a BF Pro Reverb, a couple BF Bassman and a BF Bandmaster and a Silverface BM 10. 701. Darkness said: No comparison between Blooz Jr. I The later ones have a really beefey power transformer, and more voltage on the preamp. Mar 11, 2007 · Both have solid state rectifiers. Psionic has a video on youtube where he talks about "de CBSin'g" a silverface amp. Oct 7, 2021 · Besides a completely different preamp layout, different tonestack, the tweed has a cathode follower, the others do not. Blackface Twins were 60w. All the narrow-panel tweed, blonde and blackface Tremoluxes are very valuable today with a well-deserved collector status. The Silverface control face plate was discontinued in 1981 and replaced by the second series of the blackface amps. Nov 22, 2009 · I have always heard never buy a Silverface Fender. The 64′ Custom is the best Fender branded reissue of the Princeton Reverb out there. Maybe it’s because they are pretty easy to find (Fender made a lot of ‘em), or because they don’t quite carry the cache’ of their Blackface brethren. It doesn't look better (of course this is eye of the beholder). In-depth comparison of blackface and silverface We compare the last Fender Blackface Bassman (AB165) to the First Fender Silverface Bassman (AC568) using a 1973 Fender Stratocaster and a 1971 Marshall 1982 Oct 15, 2005 · They, obviously, offer more midrange and earlier overdrive than Blackface Fenders, but tighter tone, more focused distortion tone, and a much faster attack on the note over Tweed Fenders. (AA764) Silverface Bassman 135. Feb 14, 2020 · Tweeds will be more mid-forward and will break up much quicker and harder. The JPN blackface has levels up to around 50% (slightly over 50% on a couple of tracks). A SF bassman with a couple vintage 30s out-Marshalls classic Marshalls imho. But those are two different food groups, and you really need to choose which eq is the one you want. Amplifier development was moving at breakneck speed at Fender in the early ’60s. Usually following a circuit/schematic referred to as AB 763. Nov 16, 2000 · Silverface late '60's Twin Reverb, layout, notes. 57 LP Twin Vs 59 HP Jan 16, 2021 · Tweed cleans, old Marshall cleans, mid forward or flatter eq cleans, are beautiful clean sounds. I love my tweed NOS BJ, but it being my main amp for years, I'm about to sell it and jump on the SS train. And even the changes that were made, usually don't effect tone that much. There are some easy ways to find out when your vintage Fender was manufactured. The amps just sound very "alive". 4. Both amps have two instrument inputs. Two versions of the legendary Fender amplifier. This month’s highlights another possible silverface Twin modification—one that doesn’t improve the amp’s tone so much as its practicality in regards to operation and serviceability. The Tweed would be an old fender tweed like a bassman. I'll probably have Andrews Amp Lab do the work as long as I'm happy with how the do on my SFPR they're working on now. The . One of those amps where you plug in and straightaway have a great sound, and near impossible to get a bad sound. The further back you go, Tweed and Brownface, the more mids the amps have, less clean (although some are still quite loud) and "bolder", "thicker" sound. BF mid controls maxed out is not a mid forward eq. This is one of the big payoffs of the amp. May 18, 2017. The Bassman's 4 ohm output transformer has the same girth as a Super Reverb output transformer (which is wound for 2 ohms). Unlike most other amp models Fender kept the circuit almost unchanged during the silverface era. All of these Champs used a 6SJ7 pre amp tube rather than the 12AX7. I went looking for a Deluxe Reverb a while back and tried the reissue and liked it, but I wasn't blown away The Tremolux is rarer than the other blackface piggy back amps since it was produced over a shorter period of time. Reply reply. • 7 yr. - Prince Tone Reverb: '66 Blackface Reverb, AA964 circuit. These amps hit the market in late 1977, and are considerably different from their 100W & 45W predecessors, with different transformers and power filtering requirements. When you say BF, you're really talking about 3 possible circuits, AA864, AA165 and AB165. The 5F1 lasted until 1964, when the Champ finally made the transition to the "Blackface" style of circuit and cabinet. Dec 5, 2004 · Jul 17, 2001. as the Super Reverb and Bandmaster. It's still the same as the tweed version (chrome chassis and all) but looked like the new blackface models. The distortion sound is a bit compromised when compared to blackface, but the clean sound in my opinion is better. Unique among Fender amps of the era, the tiny Champion 600 of 1949-1953 had a two-tone brown and white textured vinyl (“leatherette”) covering. Actually, you get a 12 inch speaker vs. Its strength lies in the sweetness and early breakup caused by the smaller transformers than the Super Reverb, Vibroverb and Pro Reverb. The 50w heads are monster guitar amps, though. •. zs vp tk vo il bv ae oq pu sv